MKIV SUPRA vs Z32 Nissan vs. R34 RB26 Skyline

[Mayesj101]

The gas crisis hit the states in 1974.

[Mayesj101]

This past gas minicrisis was a drop in the bucket compared to 1974. That crisis was what killed the muscle car.

[Mayesj101]

Before 1973, oil barrels were worth a 1-2 dollars at best. At the height of the crisis, it spiked to above 73 bucks a barrel.

[Mayesj101]

And the Z31 was 1984-1989. They were beaten by the Supra Mk. 3 Turbo by 20 HP in 1987.

[jinxtacy]

Originally Posted by Mayesj101

I just mean that they could have easily built the VH engine to more power, but they left it-and thus, the 350 was stuck with stagnant power output and increased weight compared to the 300ZX. The only advantage of the 350Z is the advanced tech.

And I will slightly agree that a complete sports car wouldn't sell completely well. However, the point of a Z is that it's supposed to still be a sports car. Now, it's a toned-down car that's just now getting more of a power boost.

I mean, look at the VR DETT that's going into the GT-R. It would be easy to make a VH-based turbo engine that could've fit into the Z bay. Had they made a 350Z Turbo, I'd have been happier.

The market at the time didn't really call for a turbo. The market really isn't calling for one ahead either. You are aware that Nissan was in dire straits within the past decade. Since the 350Z the company is thriving. Who is offering turbo cars? Domestics because they thought it was the "in" thing (right when it kind of became the thing that was "so yesterday." Most people don't want to deal with a turbo or a turbo charged car. Now the Z gets higher marks of drivability, no lag, response, more predictable, and a torquey punch. They make these cars for the masses...not just the fans and honestly they struck a winner. Since you're a straight line guy you miss out on all the other aspects of what really make a Z a Z.

Oh and it is very much a sports car. A sports cars doesn't have to be a race car. Though it can. Sports cars and race car are different. Amenities don't make it any less of a sports car in my book.

[Mayesj101]

Yeah, I know that sports cars are different than race cars. I've just grown up judging cars by the quarter mile time.

[Bowtie]

Originally Posted by Mayesj101

This past gas minicrisis was a drop in the bucket compared to 1974. That crisis was what killed the muscle car.

No, what killed the Muscle Car was strict EPA restrictions of which the big three had a problem adjusting to.

[jinxtacy]

Originally Posted by Mayesj101

The gas crisis hit the states in 1974.

And when did I say the Skyline GTR and Corvette tanked? I was talking gas crisis not economic crisis in this instance.


Economic crisis right now will also influence what people are looking for in a car. Reliability, gas consumption, cost, etc. are all factors that most "normal" (if you can call them that) will look at in their future purchases if any.

[jinxtacy]

Originally Posted by Bowtie

No, what killed the Muscle Car was strict EPA restrictions of which the big three had a problem adjusting to.

We might have just gotten schooled.

[Mayesj101]

That, and the fact that gas prices increased exponentially. As the gas price went up, the demand for a big-block V8 went down, and the desire for the compact hatchback increased. Thus, we got the Chevette and the Fiesta.

[Mayesj101]

The EPA restrictions were designed to slow down consumption of gasoline.

[jinxtacy]

Originally Posted by Mayesj101

Yeah, I know that sports cars are different than race cars. I've just grown up judging cars by the quarter mile time.

Well like I said saying a 350Z isn't a real Z because it's too luxurious (have you sat in one? Have you sat in a luxury car before?) because it doesn't have stuff typical of the 70s is ridiculous. It's like saying that the C5 Corvette isn't a real Corvette because it ride like ass. Also it's not really the 350Z's fault that it didn't come with tweed (I mean seriously!) interior.

The interior of the 300Z was a huge turn off for me. 350Z is quirky on the inside, but a million times better. That's what I like. Improvement with the times. If you only judge by quarter mile times then you'll fail to see the improvements and the 350 is not the car for you.

[jinxtacy]

Originally Posted by Mayesj101

That, and the fact that gas prices increased exponentially. As the gas price went up, the demand for a big-block V8 went down, and the desire for the compact hatchback increased. Thus, we got the Chevette and the Fiesta.

That was kind of the jist I have of car history as well, but Bowtie is pretty smart so I wouldn't count him out just yet. Unless he was talking specifically of the "muscle cars."

[jinxtacy]

Did he perhaps go to sleep? *prays*

I'm going to start cooking breakfast. Jesus...clock went all around. It's like picking at a scab that keeps coming back.

[mehrshadvr4]

Originally Posted by donkeypunch

People will spend money on what delivers. The Supra delivers and the more popular desirable platform. That's why there are more videos, drag strip records and deemed the highway king.

then civic and 240 FTW. if there is one 1300whp street 3000gt, then anyone with money can do that to his street car.

[Dave]

damn you DP lol

[donkeypunch]

Originally Posted by mehrshadvr4

then civic and 240 FTW.

No! People want go fast. Not Slow and still have a street car.

[Skinny Will]

Originally Posted by Bowtie

I agree. The Supra needs to come back. BADASS.

Originally Posted by Mayesj101

A Mk5 Supra would be great. Then again, they've gone "green", so it's not gonna come back. Just like we're not gonna see another serious new NSX.

toyota designers have been talking about bringing the supra back since 2004/5
i've seen 3 different designs with 3 different motors and i just dont see it happening, unfortunately.

but everyone knows who i pick, 2jz of course

[donkeypunch]

Originally Posted by Got1sikMk4

toyota designers have been talking about bringing the supra back since 2004/5
i've seen 3 different designs with 3 different motors and i just dont see it happening, unfortunately.

but everyone knows who i pick, 2jz of course

I was really hoping that the Lexus LFA would be the new Supra platform. They just need to put the 2JZ in the Lexus LFA body and call it a day.

[Skinny Will]

Originally Posted by donkeypunch

I was really hoping that the Lexus LFA would be the new Supra platform. They just need to put the 2JZ in the Lexus LFA body and call it a day.

well there's been speculation about the mkV motor. i've seen that they're gonna have a base model v6, then a sport model v8, but then i've also seen a TT hybrid v6. the 2jz is done, maybe there will be a 3jz? haha

[Rick_TL-S]

Originally Posted by donkeypunch

I was really hoping that the Lexus LFA would be the new Supra platform. They just need to put the 2JZ in the Lexus LFA body and call it a day.

+1. They should just come out with it after all that money they spent on it. Yeah, the economy may not be in the position for it, but we're still seeing people shell out $500K+ for the latest Ferrari.

[donkeypunch]

Originally Posted by Got1sikMk4

well there's been speculation about the mkV motor. i've seen that they're gonna have a base model v6, then a sport model v8, but then i've also seen a TT hybrid v6. the 2jz is done, maybe there will be a 3jz? haha

The FT-HS is an interesting platform. The hybrid electric motor V6 but with crazy electric motor acceleration. The Toyota FT-HS however isn't the new Supra and neither is the LFA.



The new Supra should not be put in the same class as the 350Z/370Z or the RX8. At least with the price tag. It should be up there with the exotics and that's why I wanted the Lexus LF-A to be the new Supra as the LF-A is Lexus "Super" Car.

[turbokillsemall]

2jz is all I have to say.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by donkeypunch

No! People want go fast. Not Slow and still have a street car.

[mehrshadvr4]

Originally Posted by donkeypunch

I was really hoping that the Lexus LFA would be the new Supra platform. They just need to put the 2JZ in the Lexus LFA body and call it a day.

then that engine turns it to a pig that can't turn. high center of gravety, too long, too heavy compare to a full aluminum engine. have you noticed that there is no JDM supra road race car with 2jz in it and all have 3/s engine in them?

[donkeypunch]

Originally Posted by mehrshadvr4

then that engine turns it to a pig that can't turn. high center of gravety, too long, too heavy compare to a full aluminum engine. have you noticed that there is no JDM supra road race car with 2jz in it and all have 3/s engine in them?

Rear/mid engine mount on the Lexus LFA would be just fine. We are talking about an over all street SUPER CAR here, not a road race car.

[Fonzie]

I love the way supras look!

[volizei]

Comparing modded cars is kind of a hard thing to do as there are so many different things to take into account, but stock for stock, watch these.
Bit of a throw back kinda bashes inlines but its whatever.
Part 1
Pro+Driver+Test%3a+300ZX+Turbo+vs.+Supra+Turbo

part 2
Pro+Driver+Test%3a+300ZX+Turbo+vs.+Supra+Turbo+Par t+

Part 3
Pro+Driver+Test%3a+300ZX+Turbo+vs.+Supra+Turbo+Par t+

Part 4
Pro+Driver+Test%3a+300ZX+Turbo+vs.+Supra+Turbo+Par t+

stock for stock id take a z over the supra. As for modding, the supra does have a stronger following but there are a few 1000+hp vg30detts out there. As for living with each car, i own a 94 300zx tt, and have never even driven a supra so i cant say how the two compare( the Z is quite comfortable though especially on long trips). But I love all 3 cars.

[mehrshadvr4]

Originally Posted by donkeypunch

Rear/mid engine mount on the Lexus LFA would be just fine. We are talking about an over all street SUPER CAR here, not a road race car.

if they want to beat the GT-R then that can not be an option. there was a reason tuners replace the 2jz, because the disadvantage it had for road racing. now how an LF-A can beat GT-R in nurburgring with that heavy, long engine?

[onebad280z]

Originally Posted by Mayesj101

Stock Nissan 300ZX TT: quarter in 13.7.

And as for the 350Z? It's a nice car, don't get me wrong. However, it is not a Z. The Z is supposed to be a car that could do it all. It had the potential to go from a car show, to comfortably drive around town, and still be able to outperform almost anything else in it's class.

350Z... its a Z.

Z was originally a sports car for the masses, plain and simple. In that regard, the Z33 hits the nail on the head.
EDIT: "relatively" cheap sports car for the masses

As to the original intent of this thread. I am a Z guy, but the Z32 doesn't hold a candle to the Supra or Skyline. To be honest I don't think I would ever own any of them (none of them really appeal to me all that much), but I could see myself swapping the Supra motor into a number of different cars.

[Mayesj101]

Originally Posted by jinxtacy

Well like I said saying a 350Z isn't a real Z because it's too luxurious (have you sat in one? Have you sat in a luxury car before?) because it doesn't have stuff typical of the 70s is ridiculous. Also it's not really the 350Z's fault that it didn't come with tweed (I mean seriously!) interior.

The interior of the 300Z was a huge turn off for me. 350Z is quirky on the inside, but a million times better. That's what I like. Improvement with the times.

Ummm, the 300ZX had a nice interior. Recaro seats, a digital dash, electronic climate control. It was nice. The 350Z, however, just tried too much on the "quirky", and not enough on an idea of "performance luxury", which is what the Z's were about.

And by the way, I don't have a problem with cars updating with the times. I just have a problem with cars that leave past styling behind, then try to call themselves a link with the past.

[Bowtie]

Originally Posted by Mayesj101

Ummm, the 300ZX had a nice interior. Recaro seats, a digital dash, electronic climate control. It was nice. The 350Z, however, just tried too much on the "quirky", and not enough on an idea of "performance luxury", which is what the Z's were about.

And by the way, I don't have a problem with cars updating with the times. I just have a problem with cars that leave past styling behind, then try to call themselves a link with the past.

Have you ever driven a 350Z?

[Mayesj101]

And the Z does hold up to the Supra; at least until mid-to high HP apps. From that point, it's merely a lack of innovation that kills the Z. Were someone to put anywhere near the design time into the Z as the Supra, it'd be just as good.

[Mayesj101]

Originally Posted by Bowtie

Have you ever driven a 350Z?

Driven one, no. Driven in one, yes. My dad almost got one back in '06.

[Bowtie]

Originally Posted by Mayesj101

Driven one, no. Driven in one, yes. My dad almost got one back in '06.

And you're trying to tell us because it doesn't look like other Z's it isn't one?

Trust me, I've booted around in a 350Z and it just as much one as a 280 or 300. So what if there is no turbo engine. It's powerful enough stock without spoolies.

[onebad280z]

Originally Posted by Mayesj101

Ummm, the 300ZX had a nice interior. Recaro seats, a digital dash, electronic climate control. It was nice. The 350Z, however, just tried too much on the "quirky", and not enough on an idea of "performance luxury", which is what the Z's were about.

And by the way, I don't have a problem with cars updating with the times. I just have a problem with cars that leave past styling behind, then try to call themselves a link with the past.

Zs were never been about "performance luxury" until maybe the 280zx. My car is anything but "luxury" in any sense of the word.

I think, if anything, the original 240z was a little bit quirky.

to everyone else reading this thread....There is no real need for anybody to try and argue against the Z..... Z guys tear each other apart enough that it really isn't necesary.

[Mayesj101]

Originally Posted by onebad280z

to everyone else reading this thread....There is no real need for anybody to try and argue against the Z..... Z guys tear each other apart enough that it really isn't necesary.

True-I'm a 3rd-gen, he's an original. We're practically polar opposites.

But then again, I'd love to have an old 240 eventually. There's one that's junked down the street...I might have to talk to my dad.

[volizei]

this isnt really about the old z cars its about the 90s japanese Muscle, and to be honest aftermarket support is a bit of luck mixed with solid design. All three cars are great but it was just not enough people wanted the zx at the time. But stock for stock the Z is basically better at everything(compared to the supra). see the videos in my post up there ^

[Mayesj101]

Originally Posted by volizei

this isnt really about the old z cars its about the 90s japanese Muscle, and to be honest aftermarket support is a bit of luck mixed with solid design. All three cars are great but it was just not enough people wanted the zx at the time. But stock for stock the Z is basically better at everything(compared to the supra). see the videos in my post up there ^

Agreed. The stock ZX dominated the Supra. Better aero, sweet styling that didn't look rice stock.

[Mayesj101]

Heck, my car has better aerodynamics than the Mk.4 Supra. That's just sad.

[donkeypunch]

Originally Posted by Mayesj101

Heck, my car has better aerodynamics than the Mk.4 Supra. That's just sad.

Ugh, what makes you say that? Post up proof! Do you think your car has better aero than a VIPER?


...waiting for answer.

[onebad280z]

Originally Posted by volizei

this isnt really about the old z cars its about the 90s japanese Muscle, and to be honest aftermarket support is a bit of luck mixed with solid design. All three cars are great but it was just not enough people wanted the zx at the time. But stock for stock the Z is basically better at everything(compared to the supra). see the videos in my post up there ^

I know this isn't about old Z cars but its funny how threads tend to make a tangent. shit happens...

Stock for stock is pointless. This is an automotive enthusiast site, none of us are really gonna keep any of these cars stock. Stock potential is another story though and the supra motor has more potential than the Z32s powerplant in "stock" form.

Originally Posted by Mayesj101

Agreed. The stock ZX dominated the Supra. Better aero, sweet styling that didn't look rice stock.

I dont know about the aero of the supra but I agree the Z32s aerodynamics were definitely very good. As far as "sweet styling" and "didn't look rice stock".... I may be biased but all wedge shaped cars have really never done much for me. I guess it was rice looking cause it had a large spoiler stock?????? You lost me there, but i do prefer the supra without a spoiler.

[Mayesj101]

Designed by Kazumasu Takagi and his team of developers, the 300ZX improved aerodynamics and increased power when compared to its predecessor, the 280ZX. The newer Z-car had a drag coefficient of 0.30.

Drag coefficient is .31 for the naturally aspirated models and .32 for the turbo models and N/A's with the rear spoiler.

[donkeypunch]

Actually both frontal Drag Coefficient for both cars are 0.31

[Mayesj101]

1st was Z31, second was Supra, Mk.4.

[Mayesj101]

Well, frontal drag coefficient for Z31 was .30, so we've got you beat.

We actually have the same front drag coefficient as the new 350Z's, which is a testament to the good design of the Z31.

[donkeypunch]

Originally Posted by Mayesj101

Well, frontal drag coefficient for Z31 was .30, so we've got you beat.

You have to have the power to beat a Supra.

How many MKIII or MKIV Supras have you beat?

I've beat every Z32 TT and upgraded one (GT28R's) 600+RWHP and a boosted Z33, but never a Z31 cause I don't want to waste the gas.

[Mayesj101]

So in theory, a Z31 with a 2JZ- swap (to take advantage of the aftermarket) would beat a Supra at top speeds.

[Mayesj101]

Actually, I don't know anyone with a Mk.3 around here. And as for a Mk. 4, once I get my engine swap in, I should come close, if not able to beat some.

[donkeypunch]

Originally Posted by Mayesj101

Actually, I don't know anyone with a Mk.3 around here. And as for a Mk. 4, once I get my engine swap in, I should come close, if not able to beat some.

Why do you have to swap the engine??????

Z31 engine not GOOOOD enough?